T. Harv Eker’s newest book, Secrets of the Millionaire Mind, had just come out when we interviewed him for this issue. Harv told me he fully expected it to be a New York Times bestseller. He was not disappointed: by the time I began editing the interview for press, Secrets… had reached #2 on the Times’s “Hardcover Advice” bestseller list and #1 on the Times’s Business list, as well as #2 on USA Today and #1 on the Wall Street Journal’s Business and Hardcover lists!

One reason for the book’s huge and nearly instantaneous success is the already huge following that brought about the skyrocketing success of his programs, most famously “The Millionaire Mind Intensive.” And the book certainly should add to that success: included in each copy of the book’s first printing are two paid tickets to the three-day seminar, which normally sports a hefty $1295 price tag.

Among that following are a significant contingent of network marketers: Eker says they have entire downlines of several hundred at a time attending the program. We spoke with Harv to find out what has got networkers in such a rave about his “millionaire mind” ideas …and discovered he had some pretty fascinating things to say about duplication and network marketing. — JDM

Where did your interest in the “millionaire mind” start?

My parents came from Europe with $30 rolled in half a French loaf and nothing else—no other clothes, no suitcases, nothing. Not surprisingly, growing up in our household, money was very important. Money meant life, survival, security.

When grownups asked us, “What do you want to be when you grow up?” my friends would say they wanted to be firemen, astronauts, baseball players. I’d say, “I want to be a millionaire.” I was so impatient to become a millionaire that I left school early to get on with it.

But it didn’t work. For the next ten years, I tried everything: I went through 14 different jobs and started 12 different businesses—and nothing worked.

Finally, after I’d moved back into my parents’ lower level suite (otherwise known as “the basement”) for the third time, my father mentioned me to one of his poker buddies, who was a multimillionaire. This guy took me aside and said, “Stop trying to reinvent the wheel. The way to get rich is to do what rich people do. It’s no big secret.”

I didn’t know what rich people did, so I started studying rich businesspeople. And in my very next business, I made a million and a half dollars in only two and a half years.


So you were finally a millionaire.

Yes I was—and guess what? Two years later I’d lost it all and I was back to my original financial position!

Being in the fitness business, I knew of this thing called the “set point,” this place of stasis where your body is comfortable and conditioned to be. Let’s say you normally weigh 160; if you overeat for a week and gain 25 pounds, pretty soon you’ll naturally come back to 160. Or if you go on a crash diet and get down to 140, after you fall off the diet you’ll go back up to 160.

It dawned on me that we also have a “set point” when it comes to our money. When people look at their bank accounts, it’s just like when they look at their scales—it usually says the same number!


And you had a financial set point of zero!

Exactly. By this time I had gotten involved with NLP, Gestalt therapy, hypnotherapy and all sorts of personal growth areas, and I started using these to recondition my mindset about money.

Once I started changing my “money blueprint,” money started pouring in.


How did that experience lead to your programs?

At one point back when I was struggling, I reached a point of utter despair. I remember lying there, with no business and no job, so frustrated I felt like crying, thinking, “I’m almost 30 and I’m still broke, what’s the matter with me?” I looked up at the sky and said, “God help me! If I somehow do find the secret to getting rich, I vow that I’ll devote my life to helping other people do the same thing.”

So I created the Millionaire Mind Intensive program (originally called “Your Mind and Money”), and the people who took the course also started taking off like crazy. As of today, we’ve taken a quarter million people through the newest version of the program and helped them change their money blueprint so they not only make more money, but also keep it and grow it.


Which are not the same thing.

Absolutely not. People say, “It’s not what you make, it’s what you keep.” That’s not quite true. What you make is very important. So is what you keep—and so is what you invest. All three factors must be in place for you to get rich.

But if you don’t have your blueprint set for success, then when you invest you’ll just lose it all. Or you’ll lose it in a divorce, or your partner will take it, or…it doesn’t matter what the manifestation is, it will happen.


Because you make it happen.

Your thoughts make it happen. Your thoughts lead to your feelings, lead to your actions, lead to your results. Everything starts with your thoughts. I don’t teach people how to get rich, I teach them the root of getting rich. If you don’t have a money blueprint set for success, you can know all the sales techniques and be the best communicator in the world and you’re still going to end up where your set point puts you.


Where does this set point come from?

We’re conditioned from a very young age to be at a certain level, based on things we heard, saw and experienced. This runs our life.

I worked recently with a network marketer who had been earning $50,000 a month; when that company folded, he pulled himself back up to earning $40,000 a month with another, then left that company because of integrity issues; now he was on his third company and had just gotten back to about $15,000. He said, “I love this business, but I keep going up and down: I’ve bought and lost three houses!”

The problem wasn’t the network marketing companies. The problem was him—how he chose those companies and how he chose to create the situation.

We went into his blueprint and found that his father’s income always went up and down like a yo-yo. He’d been a salesman; when he had a good project to sell, he made a lot of money, and when he was between projects, he’d make practically nothing. His son had learned the pattern: have–have not, have–have not.


How do you know what your money blueprint is set for?

Just look at the results. The fruits will tell you about the roots.

It’s exactly like a thermostat. If the temperature in the room is 70 degrees, chances are good the thermostat is set for about 70 degrees. Now, if you open all the windows and it’s cold outside, the temperature could drop to 65…but before long the thermostat will kick in and drive it back to 70. Or if it’s hot outside, the room could go up to 80—but the thermostat will kick in and drive it back to 70.

You can’t permanently change the temperature in that room till you change the thermostat. And you can’t permanently change your financial position until you change your financial thermostat.

You may start with the most wonderful dreams, but those dreams will be choked out by the weeds in your garden.



Things you heard and saw when you were young; they got planted in your mind, and now they’re suffocating all the flowers that could be growing there.

Everyone has at least a few good flowers in their garden—good ways of thinking that support their success, dreams, aspirations. But they get crowded out by weeds that suck up all the nutrients—until you recognize them and pull them.


Can you give us an example of a weed?

A woman came to our course because no matter how much money she made, she would always lose it. Money would fly through her hands. She’d spend it, give it away, invest it poorly, do whatever it takes to make sure it was gone within a month!

Here’s what we found: When she was growing up, her mom would give her a dollar every day for lunch. There was a bully who would threaten to beat her up if she didn’t fork over the buck, so she persuaded her mom to stop giving her the dollar. She gave different reasons: she already had money, she was on a diet, whatever she could think of.

The first day her mom didn’t give her the dollar, the bully didn’t believe she didn’t have any money and beat her up anyway—then found she really didn’t have the buck. Pretty soon, the bully started leaving her alone.

Here’s what she learned: “Money causes pain: I’m safer without it.” That’s an unconscious blueprint, a dendrite bigger and more powerful than any amount of money she could possibly earn. She unconsciously learned to get rid of her money, no matter what, to protect herself.


How do people with a success blueprint operate differently?

Rich people are committed to success; poor people want success. Most people who get into network marketing get in to “see if it’s going to work.” Can you imagine a warrior going into battle to “see if it’s going to work”? Success requires playing full out; “seeing if it will work” will never achieve anything but mediocrity.

A great many network marketers get into the business with a dream, but as time goes by and things start getting hard, they start saying, “My upline is crummy, I’m not sure about this company, this is awfully hard, maybe this was a bad idea….”

Rich people believe, “I create my life.” Most other people believe, “Life happens to me.” Successful people take full responsibility for where they are in their lives. Unsuccessful people don’t; they play the victim game: they blame, justify and complain. But there is no such thing as a rich victim: every time you complain, blame or justify, you’re playing the victim game—and you’re slitting your own financial throat.

Most people let fear, doubt and worry stop them. Rich people act in spite of fear, doubt and worry. Fear is just your conditioned thinking bubbling up in you. If you can let go of your disempowering thoughts, you’ll be happy and successful.


How do you “let go of your disempowering thoughts”?

Your mind is a survival mechanism. Its job is to protect you, to keep you alive, so it’s constantly looking for what could go wrong. That’s its normal M.O. and you’re not going to change it. But you don’t have to listen.

As I look out my window right now, I see a green building. Does that mean I have to go into it? No. And just because a thought or an opinion bubbles up in your mind, doesn’t mean you have to entertain it.

Here’s my best advice: don’t believe a word your mind says. Don’t believe a thought you think.


You’re sounding a bit like Eckhart Tolle: Stay in the present moment.

There is no being upset, fearful or unhappy in the present. There is no failure in the present. The present moment is your refuge. If you can stay focused on the present, you’ll be rich, successful and happy.

Of course, that’s not easy, because we have this entity called the mind which only exists in the past and in the future. In the present there’s no mind; every time you step into the past or the future your mind becomes active. And that’s where problems are born.


On the level of pure strategy and action, what did you learn when you studied what rich people do?

There are three things you need to do to create a business success. The first is to make sure you’re in a good vehicle. Of course, many network marketers are already in an excellent vehicle.


How do you know if it’s a good vehicle?

Easy: Is anyone else making serious money at this? If they are, you can too. If nobody’s making very good money at it, it’s probably not a very good vehicle.


And the second thing?

Systemize your methodology. Don’t reinvent the wheel. If there’s methodology that’s working, use that system. Do what the people in your company who are rich are doing, and don’t veer from it.


And then?

And then, duplicate it. Duplication means getting more people, right? Wrong. Not in network marketing—not a smart way to do business.

“Getting more people” means nothing. Do you really want to be a babysitter for a thousand people? Wouldn’t you rather have three solid partners?


Even though that sounds like a slam-dunk, a lot of people go for the first option.

True; they think there’s “safety in numbers.” But there’s not: there’s hassles and problems in numbers. There’s babysitting in numbers, not safety!

You duplicate by getting good people. “Recruit up”—find people who are better than you are, because your duplication doesn’t end until you’ve trained them to train someone else.

Network marketing is not a selling business; it’s a teaching business. You must train people to train people to train people to train people. The moment you have someone on your fifth level who isn’t trained that this is about training people to train people, you have someone who’s trying to make this a sales business—and then you have no growth in that leg.

The number of people is not the problem: it’s all about training. Saying, “I’m going to recruit a lot of people,” gets you nowhere. If you say, “I’m going to train a lot of people,” now you’ve got a business that can grow.


Why do people create organizations where they’re doing a lot of babysitting?

Because they’re drama kings and drama queens. It makes them feel important. Broke, but important.

There’s a saying, “The devil you know is better than the devil you don’t.” People would rather live with comfort and familiarity than risk and reward. I would challenge them: practice being uncomfortable and inconvenienced. Because when you’re uncomfortable, you’re growing. And if you aren’t growing, you’re dying. So be grateful for those situations where you’re uncomfortable and consciously put yourself into uncomfortable situations. That, in turn, will create genuine comfort.


There’s a great line in the film, The Shawshank Redemption: “It comes down to a choice: either get busy living, or get busy dying.”

Exactly. You’re either growing, or you’re dying—and that’s also true of your downline. You can’t stay stagnant, everything’s always moving. If your business isn’t growing, it’s dying. That’s true of every living organism.

Here’s the thing about duplication: duplication is the key to your business—but the money blueprint is the key behind duplication. Because you won’t take the actions if your blueprint isn’t set properly.

This is the reason people don’t stay with the system. You give them all kinds of tools, techniques and trainings, and do they do it? No. Or they do it for a week, then stop. Because their blueprint isn’t set for success.

It’s not about more training or marketing. You may say, “I just need to make 20 more calls a week, and then I’ll have it!” No, the question is, why aren’t you making 20 more calls a week? You can tell a person to make 20 more calls a week till you’re blue in the face, they’re not going to do it—not until you change their blueprint.

The unusual and wonderful thing about network marketing is that everyone around you is working to help you grow, instead of trying to keep you down! In what other business do you have people making $50,000 and more a month—and they’re willing to tell you exactly how they did it?! Where else can you find that?


Nowhere else.

Nowhere else! Go into any other business: nobody will tell you anything! Why would they want you to successfully compete with them? The network marketing business is completely different, because you make money when other people make money.

The best thing you can do if you want a strong network marketing organization is to have people who grow—who grow in character, in who they are. If you grow as a person, that begets financial growth.

The reason I lost my first million was that I was too small a container to hold that much money. Who I was was too small. When I started working on me, on growing my container, on growing who I was, mind, body and soul, then I could hold a lot more money.

People think, “If I can just get a good investment nailed down, it will grow and I’ll be set.” No it won’t, and no you won’t—because if the money grows faster than you do, you’ll lose it! Your money can only grow to the extent that you do. You have to stay ahead of your money. The minute you let down on yourself is the minute your money starts going down. It may take months to show up, but it’s going down.

But if you do grow yourself to be a big container, the money will come. It has to. If that’s your intention, and you clean up those weeds, the universe abhors a vacuum, and it will rush in to fill any space. Create a big container, and if your intention is focused on wealth, the universe will fill that container with money. It has to. That’s its nature.